Did you know that accommodations from high school don't automatically transfer to University? Or that the goal of accommodations for students changes once you get to University? Alan Jeans, Manager of Queen's Student Accessibility Services and current PhD student at the Faculty of Education joins host Chris Carlton to discuss the transition from K-12 to University for students with accommodations.
- Find out more about Queen's Student Accessibility Services (QSAS).
- The QSAS Intake Guide walks incoming students through every step of the intake process.
Alan Jeans is a disability advocate who has worked in disability communities in Canada from coast to coast – from St. John’s, Newfoundland to Vancouver, British Columbia with stops in between. Currently, Alan manages Queen’s Student Accessibility Services (QSAS) at Queen’s University. In addition to managing QSAS, Alan is also a PhD student in the Faculty of Education at Queen’s University. His research takes a critical disabilities approach to exploring the shifting intersectional landscape between disability and masculinity over generations. Having Tourette Syndrome himself, Alan identifies with a neurodiverse experience and is a proponent of the belief that strength arises from, not in spite of disability.
Transcript
Music: Talking about innovation in teaching and education, Popular Podagogy. Discussions that are topical and sometimes philosophical, Popular Podagogy. Popular Podagogy.
CC: Hi there. Thanks for joining us and welcome to another episode of Popular Podagogy, where we try to bring big ideas in teaching and education to life. I'm your host, Chris Carlton, and this podcast is being brought to you by the Faculty of Education at Queen's University. Welcome to the podcast. In this episode, we will be discussing the topic of transitioning students with disabilities into the university setting. Our guest today is Mr. Alan Jeans, who is currently managing Queen's Student Accessibility Services at Queen's University. Alan is a disability advocate who has worked in disability communities in Canada from coast to coast, from St. John's, Newfoundland to Vancouver, British Columbia, with stops in between. In addition to managing CUSA, Alan is also a PhD student in the Faculty of Education at Queen's University. His research takes a critical disabilities approach to exploring the shifting intersectional landscape between disability and masculinity over generations. Having Tourette's Syndrome himself, Alan identifies with neurodiverse experience and is a proponent of the belief that strength arises from, not in spite of disability. Alan, welcome to our podcast.
AJ: Great. Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me here. I am excited.
CC: Alan, let me get right into it because the first question is straightforward. And could you please tell us what Queen's Student Accessibility Services does?
AJ: Yeah, Queen's Student Accessibility Services, or QSAS as we call ourselves. The purpose of the organization is to be an accessibility services office. So to make sure that any student with a disability who has an accessibility barrier to accessing their class or accessing the curriculum or engaging with their academics, that those barriers are removed. And so what QSAS does is we do that through accommodations. So a student will apply to QSAS, provide us with some documentation, medical documentation, as well as information from their first person perspective. And that's the really key part is to understand not just the medical documentation, but what does the student say about how his medical diagnosis impacts them and what that means for them. We take all of that. A student will meet with an advisor. Advisor are all faculty-specific advisors who know about what's happening within the specific faculty. So they'll be able to help to meet the student barrier as well as the essential requirements happening within the curriculum. They'll be able to bridge those to make sure we're removing those barriers for the student while also having an eye to making sure we're upholding that essential requirement and the essential parts of the class. So in a nutshell, that's what QSAS does.
CC: Now, Alan, do you act as a liaison between the professors and the students or or is that up to them to to talk to the professors?
AJ: uh a little bit a and b sometimes we we see students and we see a lot of students who say I have ADHD or a learning disability, I know what my strategies are, I know what the what the things that I need to do to be successful in the class. And they get their accommodations and they go off and engage in four years of university and never engage with QSAS again. And so we see that a lot. And sometimes we also see students that either depending on the barrier or more often depending on the context in which that barrier is arising, the student will come back and say, here's a little bit of a tricky situation that I'm trying to work through. Can you help me to navigate this?
CC: Now, do you know, does every university have this type of student accessibility service? Yeah, so every university has an ASO or an accessibility services office.
AJ: Every university and college will have an ASO. And so the main part, like I said, is to make sure that those barriers are being removed for the student.
CC: That's amazing. Now, how did you become so interested in student accessibility?
AJ: It's an interesting journey that I took. My first career is theater. And so I did a Bachelor of Fine Arts as my first undergraduate about a dozen years or 15 years. And during that, I was doing a lot of work with teaching as well, teaching theater, teaching camps. And as that was happening, I was also doing a sort of self-understanding as a person with a disability. As a person with Tourette's syndrome, I was doing a self-understanding of what that meant, having been diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome late in life. having been diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome late in life, it wasn't really, it did impact high school. It did impact elementary school, but it didn't really, it was not really paid attention to. And I never had accommodations throughout. And so in starting to learn more about disability and my own disabilities for myself, engaging within disability communities. and my own disabilities for myself, engaging within disability communities. So I also do a lot of work within the deaf community. And so in engaging in that, I started to see, oh, disability and education. This is a really interesting part. And as I joke, you know, eventually I got tired of all the money I was making in theater. And so I decided to switch over to education. And I really looked at what is disability in education and how do we remove those barriers more and more? And more so, how do we develop structures in which students can gain ownership of their own disability and say, here's how I'm arriving in this space. Here's how the way that I arrive. Here's how I would like to be engaged with in this space, or here's what my needs are. And I think that that's the really important part. And that's kind of what drives me and what interests me most is making that ability, that space for students to own their own disability, own their own experience, and to be able to be the drivers of their own engagement with academics.
CC: And you and I had a conversation before, and you referred to it as their full self, being able to come in and display their full self and we also use the terminology a culture shift as they come into university and and and I would refer to that as a culture shock when I went into university and and i can just imagine how important it is for students to be able to have somebody to walk alongside them that actually has had experience and can empathize with their situation. So what an important and rewarding opportunity it is for you to be able to do that and for the students as well.
AJ: Absolutely.
CC: Now, as I mentioned to you in conversation, I've been a teacher for about 20 years and I've taught from kindergarten to grade eight and have worked with accommodations with students and have worked alongside high school teachers to make sure those accommodations are continued and supported through the student's high school learning journey. But can you explain what are the biggest differences in accommodations between the K-12 and the university or college?
AJ: Yeah, I think that the most important thing, and so what I'll lead off with, is just an awareness that any accommodation that a student receives in high school or in the K-12 system does not automatically transfer over to any post-secondary that you're going to attend. And so I think that that's the really, really key piece. And we do see it sometimes where the student will say, you know, a first-year student in October will say, I'm not seeing my accommodations. I don't think that I have them in place. And we say, oh, you've never connected with us. And so just that awareness is sometimes missing. So they do not transfer automatically over to university. You have to set them up brand new and fresh when you get there.
CC: And I think that's also, at least from my point of view, from a teacher, I just assumed that all of that work and all of that, those accommodations would just transfer over. So that's a huge awareness point, as you said.
AJ: Yeah, and there's a larger rationale for that. So when a student switches from the K-12 system and they come to university, behind the scenes, there's a ministry shift as well. And so there's the Ministry of K-12, which puts in place, here's what accommodation should look like in the K-12 system. And then there's the Ministry of Colleges and Universities. And so the Ministry of Colleges and Universities over see what accommodation should look like in colleges and university. And whereas the Ministry of K-12 often looks at success, they want to put accommodations in place to help students succeed. Not that we don't want students to succeed as they come to the Ministry of Colleges and University and they come into university, but the purpose of accommodations in colleges and university is to help to, as they say, level the playing field. As I have sort of said before, it's about removing that barrier. So the accommodation is put in place to remove that barrier that arises from the student's disability or the functional impacts from the student's disability meeting with the curriculum of the classroom. And that's where the barrier arises. And that's what the accommodation is meant to do. Remove that barrier so that it's an equal playing field so that the student themselves can then demonstrate their own success. They can demonstrate their own knowledge and mastery.
CC: Alan, can you give us an example? You talk about removing barriers and allowing access. Can you give us an example of what that might look like for a student? Yeah, I'll give an example of a learning disability. And I may be oversimplifying in this example, but I think it gives a good kind of understanding of what I mean. So with a learning disability, that is the disability that the student has. So we will get a psychoeducational assessment, come to our our office and they'll say the student is diagnosed with a learning disability. Now that learning disability could look like a number of different things. So when we at QSAS and all accessibility services offices look at that, we're not looking necessarily at the disability, we're looking at the functional impacts. So when I said, you know, it's very important to hear from the student, what does that mean for you? That's part of what we're getting to. And so for a particular student, it may mean that the learning disability that they've been diagnosed with really impacts them when it comes to English, when it comes to English comprehension, when it comes to reading, when it comes to engaging with any sort of written language. But that learning disability may not impact them so much when it comes to math, as an example. Now, if this student is taking all math courses, yes, they have a disability. Yes, it impacts English, but in the actual context of the math class, the functional impacts of their disability are not, I'm not going to say they're not present, because they still may be present, but they're not as barrier creating as they would be if the student were doing all English classes. And so that's what I mean when I say that it's about the student's disability and how that shows up for the student in connection with the context of the class and the curriculum.
CC: So from that, I would assume that student advocacy is very important for them to be involved and not just receiving, but being an active participant in this as well.
AJ: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so it's the student voice is absolutely key in in understanding, not only in in helping us to to create those, but also in saying, you know what, in high school I had I used blank technology and it really worked for me and it did all these wonderful things. Is it OK if I use that here? And we'll say, absolutely. Sure, let's let's get that incorporated. So the students and like I said, a lot of times when we get students transitioning into university, they've they've had a learning disability or ADHD or whatever disability they're coming with. They've worked through with wonderful people in their high school time to understand strategies, to understand skills. They just want to take that and sort of say, okay, how does that transition? What does that look like in university? I did this in high school. Is that going to help me here? And, and that's the other part of, of advising is not just saying, here's the accommodation, but saying, okay, that thing that you used, that's going to be really beneficial in, in university, or that thing you used may not transition or may not translate into university classes because A, B, and C.
CC: And that leads us right into our final question. And that is, in your mind, what is the most useful advice for helping students in transition between the high school and university or college?
AJ: So the main advice you'd give them. I would say the first part is make sure you're connecting with your accessibility services office as early as you possibly can. I often say to students, when you arrive for the first time at university for your first semester, there's a lot of exciting and fun and, and great things to do in those first few weeks. And don't make sitting in an office with an accessibility advisor, setting up your accommodations, one of those things that you have to do. So get it done throughout the summer. Make sure your accommodations are in place before you even arrive at university. And then you can have that part done. The other thing that is so important, and it's not to do with our office per se, is for students to find their community. Find that place. And this is where, you know, Chris, coming back to what you were talking about, arriving as your full self as your whole self um finding those places those communities those spaces that you can say here I am a person with a disability and this is what I bring um and and the people and the spaces and they they do exist they exist in queens they exist in in every. But those spaces that will, rather than saying, oh, you have a disability that must be so hard for you, will say, great, I also have a disability. Here's the wonderful thing that I get from my disability. Here's how it advantages me. Or just to say, you know what, my OCD is out of control today. I, you know, I really need a place where I can just decompress and be around others and feel safe to self-regulate in that way. Or my anxiety is through the roof and I need to find my people where I can just say, here's who I am and here's what I bring in this moment today. And I think that that's so, so important for any student coming to university, especially a student with a disability.
CC: And I'm glad you emphasized any student and especially disability, but I love the expression, here I am and this is what I bring, finding that community, finding that safe space. And I hadn't thought it when you said connect early, I was thinking when you get to university, but you're suggesting even before you get to university, do that pre-movement to make sure you have it all set and ready to go.
AJ: Absolutely. So at Queen's, students can start registering with QSAS as early as June 20th. Oh, wow. And that's why we say register early, students can start registering with QSAS as early as June 20th. Oh, wow. And that's why we say register early, because it, A, it ensures that you don't have to do it when you get here, but it also means that you can have it done and you're not in a backlog of all other students who've waited until they arrive. And now maybe you're for your first term at university, you're three and four weeks in before you're able to actually meet with an advisor to get your accommodations in place. So it's so it's really, really key. And we've talked before about that mental drain that happens no matter who you are when you go. So if you can have some of these steps already completed, it'll just free up that ability to enjoy the process as well.
CC: Absolutely. Absolutely. Alan, thank you so much for sharing your time, your personal experiences and your expertise with us today. I've learned a lot. And even though I thought I had an idea of how these accommodations worked with the students, it's opened up a whole new idea or concept of when they go to college, when they go to university, what they actually have to do. And I'm hoping that a lot of high school teachers are able to listen to that and understand that to make sure they help prep their students as well. Many students will be going through this transition and we are fortunate to have someone like yourself and your qualified staff to help them on this sometimes challenging transition. Our listeners will also be looking forward to any resources you have allowed us to include on the podcast as we can pass that along to our listeners as well. Alan, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. It was great to have this conversation with you.
AJ: Great. Thanks so much, Chris, for having me in. And it was wonderful to connect with you as well.
CC: That does it for another episode of Popular Podagogy. Again, thank you to our amazing guest, Alan Jeans. Josh, as always, where can our listeners subscribe to make sure they don't miss any of our popular podagogy podcasts? Yeah, if you like what you hear, please subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the CFRC website, the Faculty of Education website, and pretty much any place you get your podcasts. Please don't forget to check out our Queen's Faculty of Education website and search for popular podagogy for additional resources and information on this important topic. Well, that's it from myself, Chris Carlton, and our incredibly talented and resourceful podcast team of Josh Vine and Erin York. Stay healthy, stay safe, and stay connected, and we will see you next time for another episode of Popular Podagogy.