Laura Mozhu Li, an MEd student at the Faculty of Education, talks about her research on Chinese newcomer youth and their experiences with racism in Canada. Laura, a 1.5 generation Chinese-Canadian, shares how her own immigration and schooling experiences influenced her research, along with some helpful tips on fostering inclusive classrooms.
Laura Mozhu Liis a 1.5 generation Chinese-Canadian woman who came to Canada with her parents at the age of 8. Currently a MEd student at Queen's, her research stems from her own identity and struggles in the Ontario school system and takes on a social justice approach in unraveling the immigration and schooling experiences of Chinese newcomer youth. Laura’s background and immigration experiences fuel her passion for languages and culture, and, combined with her love of teaching, they motivated her to become a secondary French and English teacher.
Transcript
(Theme Song) Talking about innovation in teaching and education, popular podagogy, discussions that are topical and sometimes philosophical, popular podagogy, popular podagogy.
CC:
Hi there. Thanks for joining us and welcome to another episode of Popular Podagogy where we try to bring big ideas in teaching and education to life. I'm your host, Chris Carlton, and this podcast is being brought to you by the Faculty of Education at Queen’s University. Welcome to our podcast. In this podcast, we will be speaking with Laura Li, who is currently a Master of Education student here at Queens University. Laura's research focuses on exploring Chinese newcomer, youth understanding and experiences of racism through shifting positionality and identity, and it will be our topic of discussion.
Laura Mozu Li is a 1.5 generation Chinese Canadian woman who came to Canada with her parents at the age of 8. Her research stems from her own identity and struggles in the Ontario school system and takes a social justice approach in unraveling the immigration and schooling experiences of Chinese newcomer Youth. Her background in immigration experiences fuels her passion for language and culture, and together with her love of teaching, she was motivated to become a secondary French and English. Teacher Laura, welcome to the podcast.
LL:
Thank you so much, Chris. I am so excited to join you today.
CC:
And I am as well, Laura, we mentioned that your research examines the ways that identity and shifting positionality with immigration affect Chinese newcomer youths understanding and experiences of racism in Canada. Can you help us understand in greater detail what your research is looking at?
LL:
Yes, of course. So I am looking at the immigration stories and also schooling experiences of Chinese newcomer youth. So these youth would be high school students ages 15 years or older, who have already been living here for a few years, but are still newcomers. So they've had schooling experiences back in China and the Chinese public school system, and they can bring their knowledge of those experiences but also looking at how their identity shifts over time affected by their immigration experiences as well as schooling. Because coming to a new country is a big thing, it's a big life event and oftentimes they experience many hardships which could include just coming to a new country with different culture, different language, different foods. They may need to learn a new language themselves, so they may not be fluent yet in English, and also looking at rebuilding connections. So they are already well connected back home, but coming to a new country they need new friends and sometimes they may not have their family with them either. So in that case, they lose or some of them may lose on a financial capital social capital and that kind of network of support. So I think it's very crucial for us teachers especially, to think about how we can better support them in this transition and what kind of challenges they may face, which also includes racism. And one of the things that for me personally that I've experienced is that racism is quite subtle and oftentimes seem like small microaggressions that we may not know whether or not it's racism, and when a lot of Chinese newcomer youth, they are the dominant population in China. They don't really have that kind of power struggle, so they may not understand what they are kind of facing in Canada. And so that's something that they need to kind of struggle their way through and also gain consciousness that way. And as teachers, we could also help them through this progress process.
CC
And I I like that you said that racism can be subtle at times, because as teachers we are trained to look for it, but often it can not be evident to us. Um. So it's great that you're looking into that now. I thinkI read that you are working also to educate school boards as to how to look for these situations and provide resources for them. Is that correct?
LL
Yes, that's right.
CC
And I think that's something that, as teachers we always see, but we always look for directive from the board offices as well. So I'm excited about that. We mentioned that you are also an immigrant who came to Toronto, Canada with your parents at the age of 8. How did your experiences as an immigrant influence your research that you're doing?
LL
Thank you, Chris for this question. Because as we mentioned before, my research largely stems from my own immigration experiences and also my struggles in the Ontario school system. When I was younger first coming here, I actually did not speak English at all and do not even know how to say the word bathroom. So there was a lot of hardships and trying to learn the language as well as socially adapt to the school environment, and there were some very subtle differentiated treatment that I received that I was not aware of until I was way later in high school, when I looked back to my own experiences and I thought those may have been instances of racism that I just did not know. And also looking now that I'm into my research, I'm looking into a lot of literature and something that is largely mentioned is this idea of model minority stereotypes. The idea that Asians often are seen as successful, well adjusted, and polite. But they are usually very silent and facing unfair treatment. And there are usually also high academic achievers. While this doesn't seem to be such a bad view of Asian Canadians, Asian Americans, it still reinforces a structural racism and reinforces the racial hierarchy. And it also pits minority racial groups against each other. So saying that, oh, like Asian Canadians may not be, you know, like as bad of a race as some other races, that's very problematic in itself as well. Oftentimes this kind of like politeness and silence justifies differential treatment, and it's a way that, oh, maybe they won't, you know, say anything. So we can just be mean, we can, we can have these kind of differential treatment towards them and they just won't say anything and that's something that I have experienced as well.
And talking to some of my Chinese international friends who are international students here, they also express the same thing and that they struggled a lot socially to fit in. And sometimes people would have like small talks without them, or just ignoring them. Not sure if it's intentional or not, so this kind of microaggression. And sometimes when it's so subtle, it's very difficult to realize whether or not it's racism and something that they said is. That. Sometimes they even know that they will be experiencing differential treatment, and they even accept that as a part of the immigration experience. And I think that is something that is really sad and we shouldn't have such low expectations. And as teachers especially, we should try to make the environment welcoming for everyone and also learn about newcomer students in our classroom as best as we can, as welcoming as everybody else.
CC:
And I like the way you said model minority stereotype, which I hadn't heard before, but it makes total sense and important phrase to look at from your own experience. So when you were going through elementary school, before you hit high school, was it, do you perceive it as a lack of resources that the teachers had or a lack of support? What was the? What was the biggest? Hurdle in from your view of point, from your experience.
LL:
Yeah. So I think it's a bit of both. First, because when I first came here with my family, we landed in an area that was lower socio economically and a lower socioeconomic neighborhood, so. And the school that I went to specifically did not have much support for English language learners or newcomers, although remembering back it was probably the most diverse school that I've been to. For some reason they didn't really have enough resources to support someone like me, so I was first - I think the first week - I was trying to learn with all the other students. The teacher did struggle to get to me because I didn't speak English and I would only have a digital translator that I would use to try and follow along. So then they came up with a plan to send me down to the grade one classroom when I was actually in grade 3 to follow along with, I guess, easier lessons to try and learn English literacy that way, though that was a really awkward experience for me because socially. The grade one students were very nice to me and they actually called me Miss Laura, but I just felt really out of place and I felt very singled out. I didn't feel like I belonged because all of the other students were much shorter than me, and when the teacher said, oh, let's come to the carpet and we'll read a story together, I just did not know how to position myself like, where do I sit on the carpet? Do I sit on the carpet? I'm a little bit, maybe even too big for the carpet, so it's those little things. In these interactions that really got to me. Yeah. And I think these experiences also keep on reminding me, as a teacher to look back and also to think about what my students feel in those situations. So not to single a student out and also to really know to really know them, to have conversations with them one-on-one and know the type of support that they think they need. So now tying back to that. It's a lack of resources. From the school's perspective, but also um, my parents were really busy trying to make a living for us that I was on my own a lot of times. And they didn't really have the time, the energy, or I guess. They spoke broken English, had not enough language skills to also communicate with the teachers, to give me that kind of support. So I was often on my own trying to adjust, and I know that they are really busy and they are trying the best to provide for all of us. So I would just not bother them and I would just think it is a part of this experience.
And I knew that it was going to be hard. Immigrating to another country, losing all my friends. I thought I was just going to try my best to see what I can do and something that I also read in the literature is that and immigrant children kind of provide this kind of reverse role of parenting for their parents because their the connection and the bridge for their parents into this new world. And there are often the ones who learn languages first. I am that role and I I still am providing this role for my parents, so the young me, I was thinking, you know, I can do all of this on my own. And I can also bridge our family with Canada, so I didn't really look too much to my parents for support, even though I have talked to them about it and all of that. But they were so focused on providing for the family, they didn't really know what to do. And honestly, when I talked to the teachers, they also didn't really know what to do.
CCAnd I I think from a teacher's perspective, that's very true. It's difficult to know what to do in my own situation. I've had immigrants that have come into my classroom that that have one situation I remember was from Somalia and they had no English language skills and the only person that we could deal with was an Ant lid someplace else. So it is challenging and it was heartbreaking. I mean, because I know that I knew they wanted to be part of the classroom and I was struggling with how do I make that happen, which gets us right into the last question, Laura, what advice would you give to teachers in classrooms for helping students who are immigrants in their classrooms feel included? And you you mentioned getting to know them and finding out. What they're all about. But what happens when they don't have a strong command of the English language? How do how do we do? What do we do?
LL:
Hmm, this is something that I've learned as a supply teacher in limestone District school board. Oftentimes when I go into the classroom. I'm always told to seek help and I think connection and helping each other out is what teaching is all about, I think. And aside from connecting with the student personally, it's also important to know what kind of support or lack of support they may have. So to know more about their family, are they here by themselves as an international student? Are they here living with a host family? Are there a guardians or a someone who speaks their language and can help with the transition between schools and between countries as well as the supply teacher? When I see something that I may not be able to deal with myself, I'm told to always connect with other teachers. Other support workers and administration, so I think it's also important to speak to your principal or also like speak to guidance and counselor on one of my practical experiences, I was able to work with the English Language Development coordinator at the school and she provided this kind of support and purging for international students and that she does some of the counseling for looking at where kids want to be in the future. Where do these students go? Do what they like to be in university, college or the workplace. And what kind of courses they need to take? And thinking about like how can we transition them both academically and socially into this new environment? So I think one thing is to. For sure seek help. But something else that I do personally is that, um, I think about doing little check-ins, especially like in the middle of the semester.
LL:
So I'm something that I've done with my class is providing like an anonymous form or feedback for the teacher so they can write their name or they can also choose to not write their name to see what did I do well. And what would students like me to improve on? What are some of the things that they would like to see more in the classroom in terms of maybe something that they would like to learn more or other supports that they would like to have? So I think the support is very important. So kids know what they need help with, and sometimes they also know what ways they can be, what ways can teachers best help them. So I think check ins are very important as well. And thirdly, this is something that I learned. Um, in my first year of my BEd at program is give tokens, so talking about Chinese newcomer youth and we were talking about model minority stereotypes. So looking at each student, there are all different there.
There may be a diverse population, so there are a lot of different backgrounds and experiences. And um, there may be intersectional identity. So intersectionality is something that Kimberly Crenshaw, a black feminist and also critical race theory scholar, came up with in 1989. She talks about how there are overlaps of. Identities and there may be overlaps of different discrimination and privileges, so I think about checking my own privileges as well as checking students privileges and different intersectional identities that they may have. So if a student is, you know, a newcomer, they may experience difficulty in connecting with others. Not all the time, but maybe some of the time, and this is something that you can know when you speak to them personally, so if they're having these difficulties and there are intersectional difficulties, it's my role as a teacher in the classroom to give them tokens. So what does that mean? Like maybe come when they first come in first day in the morning. Just smile to them and say hi and give them these little happinesses that they can hang on to throughout the day. So that could make their day. And as teachers, we can definitely make a difference.
CC:
And I think you hit it on the head. The fact that a smile is a universal token for every child, um, I like the the right off the bat. It builds that connection, get to know your children. Would all teachers wanna do I know resources are always at a prime and thinning out so we we need to do more with what we have but making those connections, those deeper connections of really getting to know them and and finding out what makes them tick is is wonderful. I'm really looking forward to your research, Laura. Um, I I'm hoping that when you look back on it, it will show that there are now resources versus when you went to school. And I'm sure you're. You might be hearing that in your interviews with youryounger students, but thank you so much for sharing this with us. It's something that, as Canadian teachers were going to be dealing. And often, and it's something that we need to to seek help with and and look to those people who are are helping us with those transitions or for the families or the host families. So thank you so much for your time and we look forward to hearing more about your research when it's complete.
LL:
Thank you so much Chris for having me today.
CC:
That does it for another episode of popular Podagogy. Again, thank you to our amazing guest, Laura Li. Josh, as always, where can our listeners subscribe to make sure they don't miss any of our popular prodigy podcasts? Happy.
JV:
Yeah, if you like what you hear, please subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, the Faculty of Education website, and pretty much any place to get your podcast.
CC:
Please don't forget to check out our Queens Faculty of Education website and search for our popular podagogy podcasts and additional resources related to the topics we have discussed.
CC:
Well, that's it from myself, Chris Carlton, and are incredibly talented and resourceful. Podcast team of Josh Vine and Erin York. Stay healthy. Stay safe and stay connected and we will see you next time for another episode of popular protagonist.